File name chapt 2 refined File created date 01:07 pm Sunday, August 31 2008

The pressure to publish does not favour those who take the time to think radically, especially if they come up against referees who may not. Pete Lunn New Scientist, aug 30, 2008. p.16

Stxmc theory stands for Structure, Functioning, ixperiencit /uxperiencit, Multiple, Continuum. structure and functioning is multiple and a continuum thus the ixperiencit is also duplicateable and a continuum we thus call it when it is a duplicateable the uxperiencit concept

Uxperiencit theory of immortality pronounced “You experience it” SFUX SFX

Conscious identity of cidentireplicas argument (chapter 1) Ixperiencit identity of cidentireplicas argument(ch2)

S&F(Structure and functioning) identity you get conscious identity and ixperiencit identity. The structure does not produce consciousness but enough change in the structure of the brain changes how the brain functions and thus the consciousness produced. With out the right structure there is no consciousness produced

In understanding the concepts of survival from one time to the next, life after death, immortality, conscious identity, and conscious existence we need the to use the ixperiencit and uxperiencit concepts. In this chapter we will define and use these concepts to show how they apply to a theory of conscious existence and identity. Then show how and why soul type and personal identity theories are inadequate for these purposes.

Define Ixperiencit identity and existence

What we want is ixperiencit existence and what we want to know about are the conditions for ixperiencit identity.

This theory says that with conscious identity you get ixperiencit identity. Other theories will be more complex because they will have to decide under what conditions that you have conscious identity but you do not have ixperiencit identity.

The founding principle of any theory of survival, life after death, and immortality for a conscious being has to be the ixperiencit principle. If you, as a body is not conscious or not conscious enough to care, the simple aspect of survival of the body is all that is necessary. But if you are conscious enough to care about the consciousness produced by the body what you want is to experience the consciousness produced by this body. If you experience consciousness it does not matter what produces this consciousness it is conscious survival for you. Unconscious survival is not survival for unless it ties together periods of consciousness.

The difference between personal identity and existence theories and conscious identity and existence theories.

Personal identity is very different from conscious identity. You can be the same person and have a different conscious identity and you can have the same conscious identity and be a different person. Persons are singular, linear, unique, and discrete Consciousness is the opposite. It is multiple, n- dimensional, duplicateable, and forms a relatively smooth continuum.

Which should we care about -- conscious identity and existence or personal identity and existence? From an external view point what we care about is personal existence. From an internal view point we care about conscious existence. It is easy to see personal identity. It is usually next to impossible for humans to see consciousness identity. This is why theories of personal identity and existence are used for determining conscious identity and existence. Most people do not know or care that there is a difference.

What do we want personally in survival in this life, in survival after death, and with immortality? In survival from one instance to the next we want to experience life or be conscious. After death we want to be conscious again. In the case of immortality we want at the least there will be no time where we could not be conscious. This means that at any time in the future there is the potential that we could be conscious. This is different than being continuously conscious but we are not continuously conscious in this life and seem to be ok with it. Of course, we believe there are bad experiences that we do not want to experience, or experience again. Excluding these types of experiences, all experiences that you experience are “ok” cases of current survival, survival after death, or part of immortal existence for you.

There are three types of theories we will consider in this chapter. The first are types of theories about conscious existence and identity. The second are theories about personal identity and existence and the third are soul concept theories. We will start with an outline of the best theory of conscious existence and identity and the one that the rest of the book develops scientifically. Then we will proceed to show why the others theories do not work scientifically, rationally, experimentally coherently, predictively, and explanotorily in producing a science of survival, life after death and immortality.

Conscious existence and identity theories

Conscious existence theories concentrate not on a soul or a body but on conscious existence and identity. There can be many types of conscious identity and existence theories. We are interested in one that is based on science, that is rational and coherent, predictive, explanatory, understandable, and as simple as possible.

Multiple & continuum structure and functioning theories of conscious identity and existence.

The most important criterion of a theory is that it is true. But since we can never be certain of anything until we know everything we have to have a set of criterions that will give us a theory as accurate as possible. A true theory that can not be used because we can not understand or apply it is not a good theory. It is better to have an approximate theory that explains and predicts extremely well than an exactly true one that can not. Most scientific theories are approximately true because our knowledge about the world or reality is incomplete. This is because it is usually the case that reality is more complex than our theories are. There are many possible conscious identity and existence theories. That does not mean that they are true or even close to being true. In fact most will be are false which means that they will not be able to accurately explain or predict what is will be or was conscious identity and existence theories for any particular original.

Criterions of a good theory being true is a very important. But lacking that absolute certainty these are qualities we need; 1. Being totally based on science and not contradictory to it and the empirical evidence -- experimentally based. 2. Being the most logical, rational, and coherent with itself and the web of scientific knowledge. 3. Being the most useful, predictive, and explanatory theory. 4. Being as simple as possible while achieving the above goals so that it can be taught and understood. 5. When there is a choice that achieves the above goals, the one that has the most positive consequences for humanity, other conscious beings, the universe, and what is in it as a whole.

Multiple & continuum structure and functioning theories

This theory can allow physical discreetness on the qm level but it allows for conscious continuums to be produced. There is no reason that zero points can not exist in conscious continuums this is the concept of the division of a number by zero the result goes to infinity

The criterion is the Ixperiencit concept I experience it -- and the vehicle is structure and functioning of matter. The result is multiplicity of consciousness experience. The ixperiencit concept is not that I have to experience it all at this moment. My existence is dependent on me being conscious. Your existence is dependent on you being conscious. If you are never conscious you never exist from your perspective. If you are never conscious again you never exist again. Your existence is based on consciousness and your consciousness is based on the correct structure and functioning of matter and energy. Your existence is based on the correct structure and functioning of matter and energy.

Dichotomy between theories

Discrete versus continuum, singular versus multiple, consciousness versus body or soul, structure and functioning versus matter and soul tagging, repeatable versus singular happening, one source -- soul or body versus many sources of structure and functioning producing consciousness.

There are many uses for the concept of personal identity. But to assume that personal identity automatically is the correct criterion for determining a continuation of conscious existence is very misguided. These experiments have shown how the concept of personal identity

The first step is creating a coherent, logical, science based, theory of personal identity which may be possible for different purposes. The second aspect is determining if this theory of personal identity can accurately predict if you will actually experience what this person does. In other words does it pass the ixperiencit test.

The rest of the chapters in this book will be about developing this theory and its consequences

Sfx theory

Sfx is short for structure, functioning, and uxperiencit.

What are the proofs or reasons to believe that the ixperiencit concept is multiple and a continuum?

1. Since structure and functioning is multiple and a continuum this is evidence that the ixperiencit is also. 2. The ixperiencit is understandable as a multiple continuum. 3. There are very positive results if the ixperiencit concept is a Multiple/ continuum. 4. The alternatives are incoherent, unscientific, unpredictable theories. 5. Soul and personal identity theories are not ixperiencit theories. So they will not be able to predict the ixperiencit concept scientifically and correctly. 6. Consciousness is multiple and continuum 7. If the ixperiencit concept is based on consciousness and consciousness is a continuum then it makes it more likely that the ixperiencit is. 8. Approximation proof between two different people that have a different ixperiencit there can be constructed a continuum of consciousness change. With a discrete system there has to be some point where on one side of the point you have the ixperiencit of one person and on the other side you have the ixperiencit of the other. You can produce a body continuum between two different people a well as a consciousness continuum define these ideas

The ixperiencit concept

Consciousness /ixperiencit principle: Conscious identity equals ixperiencit identity. With identity of consciousness you get identity of the ixperiencit. This is a basic tenet/ principle of the identireplica theory. It does not have to be true for the identireplica theory to be true. But it is a simplifying concept. If it is not true it means that there is something beyond consciousness that can be equal or not and we have no evidence of it. Thus it adds a level of complexity to the multiplicity of consciousness existence theory-- MCET.

The “I experience it!” test:

When it comes to survival what matters depends on your view point or perspective. When it comes to an external point of view you want to see the body and behavior of other people and that is what they want from you. They can not see your internal consciousness, They can not tell if you are conscious at all they can only speculate and hope that you are conscious as you do the same for them. So from an external view point it is the body that is important. This is body or personal existence. From the internal view point what, matters is that you are conscious and that you experience that consciousness. The question is do I experience it? If you say yes I do experience it, it is survival for you or conscious existence, If it is a consciousness that I do not experience it is not conscious existence for me. It does not matter how this consciousness came to be or is produced what matters is that you experience it. If I experience it (being conscious), it is survival for me. If you experience it, it is survival for you. I am conscious therefore I exist. This does not necessarily tie you to a body, it ties you to consciousness that you experience. This is not saying that we are not tied to something that produces this consciousness. Our best scientific knowledge says that consciousness is produced by the brain part of a body. To sum up the Ixperiencit test: If “I experience it, it is conscious existence for me. This is what we must ask in cases of life after death or immortality: do I experience it if so it is a case of conscious existence for me and if I do not it is not a case of conscious existence for me. There does not have to be limits on the consciousness that you experience. For instance, the consciousness that you experience does not have to be a continuation of the sensepath that you are experiencing now it can be any sensepath. Of course there will be many very unpleasant ones. There are also many very different ones that are neutral of nice as well.

Ixperiencit definition The Ixperiencit concept is a basic fundamental term. You know that you are conscious you are experiencing something and this something you want to continue (if you like your life obviously). If I experience it, it is conscious existence for me. In mathematics there are basic undefined terms like point and line for geometry. You have to know what it is like to be conscious. I can describe what I am experiencing to you but if you are not conscious you will not really understand what I experience because you will not be experiencing anything. For example, How do you describe the color red to someone that has never seen or imagined red? There are no real other terms to define red, if you have never seen or some other way experienced red or a variation of it. If you have seen other colors you can at least understand the concept of another color. Like the color red though, the ixperiencit concept is not all or nothing. When you are really tired you are not as conscious as when you are wide awake. This correspond to barely red or a slight sensation of red. There are versions of the ixperiencit concept it is more than an all or nothing concept.

What is the I in the phrase “I experience it”? Usually the term I is considered the body but in the term ixperiencit “I” is the consciousness. For everyone else you are your body. But for yourself you are your consciousness. There would be no you, for you if you were not conscious. We can imagine taking all possible perception of your body away either replacing it with a totally different looking body or having no visual appearance of a body at all. In this case you would still feel the body but not see it. We can also take away all feeling of a body or have the feelings not connected to a particular place in space. For instance you feel pain but there is no place associated with that pain like a finger arm or stomach. Or you feel being touched but you do not feel or see a place that you are being touched. Or if there is a place it appears to be moving around in space. In another case you can place a feeling like your seventh foot and you know that it is in India (or in another room) but you do not and never do see it. Descartes sums it up with the statement I think therefore I am or another translation I am conscious therefore I exist. I am consciousness. You are consciousness. You are to me an aspect (object in) of my consciousness. I am to you an aspect (object in) of your consciousness. The key criterion to determining conscious existence is the ixperiencit test. If the consciousness is the same and I experience this consciousness, it is conscious identity for me. Our best scientific evidence is that it is the brain’s functioning that produces consciousness. If the brain’s structure and functioning changes enough there will be a change in the consciousness produced. Your brain is functioning even when you are asleep. Not all brain functioning produces consciousness. A brain that is not functioning does not produce consciousness. A scientific theory about conscious existence must be based on the concept of structure and functioning of matter. Since we can not currently see and compare the consciousness of people other than ourselves, we have to use the concept of structure and functioning. The criterion used to determine conscious existence is the ixperiencit test and the vehicle for creating conscious existence and identity is the concept of structure and functioning. Compare this to other theories: For the corporal or body theory the vehicle is the body. The criterion is the properties that make same body over space and time. For the closest continuer theory the vehicle is again the body and the criterion is the concept of the closest continuer body which is the closest continuer in terms of space, time, and matter. For singular consciousness theories, the vehicle is consciousness. The criterion is continuousness and continuity of consciousness. For singular materialistic combination theories: The vehicle is the body and the criterion is some combination of continuousness of the body and consciousness, and continuity or sameness of consciousness, over time. These are actually theories of personal existence and identity. There is a following assumption and that is either conscious existence and identity are not considered or that once you have a correct theory of personal existence and identity you have a theory of conscious existence and identity also. Through some rational experiments that personal existence and identity does not guarantee conscious existence and identity. So these theories are invalid for this purpose. A person is usually defined as having some version or combination of these properties: singular, linear, unique, and discrete.

Singular conscious existence and identity theories

Four major concepts that apply to the theory Singular versus multiple Discrete versus continuum

There are four important concepts that apply to theories of conscious existence they are singular, multiple, discrete, and continuum. It can be looked at as singular versus multiple and discrete versus continuum. Singular means there can not be two or more people at the same time that have identical consciousness and ixperiencit. And any particular consciousness and ixperiencit only exists for one period in time. Multiple which means that two or more different people can share the same consciousness or ixperiencit.Discrete consciousness means that consciousness and the ixperiencit concept are not composed of very small continuous changes but come in large discretely different chunks. Continuum means that you can approximate a specific consciousness and ixperiencit as close as structure and functioning will allow.

Linear consciousness means no lateral consciousness are experienced. The consciousness is progressional. divergent non divergent

Unique consciousness is where no consciousness with the same ixperiencit can or will ever be duplicated. Unique /duplicateable reproducible

A duplicate in structure and functioning is highly unlikely naturally produced in a limited multiverse but it is not logically or empirically impossible. As a continuum you can approximate the structure and functioning closer and closer to the limits of QM. Thus you can also approximate the consciousness as well

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The four are conscious based. Physically, multiplicity and continuum exist

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Structure and functioning is a physical continuum down to at least the quantum level. This means that you can change the placement of an atom by a very small amount in orientation or placement. This applied to the brain means that there are a tremendously large amount of very small changes that a brain/body can have. Thus forming a potential continuum of difference. You can map the change from any body/brain to the next with brain /body with an extremely large set of extremely small changes.

Singular & discrete structure and functioning theories:

Because actual people bodies and consciousness appear to be quit different discreetness and singularity appears to be the true on an actual level.

There is a potential structure and functioning continuum even though there may not be an actual structure and functioning continuum.

Singular & discrete structure and functioning theories could reject the fact the structure and functioning is a potential multiple continuum but they will have a very difficult time arguing this point. Instead they can simply assert that consciousness and ixperiencit is not multiple or a continuum. For this to be true a cidentireplica will never have the same consciousness as the original or if it does it will not have the same ixperiencit as the original. And conscious change between two different persons must be in large discrete steps. They then must prove that very small changes in structure and functioning will produce large changes in consciousness between individuals but very small changes within the same person produces very small changes in the consciousness of the original.

you can not nor can there be by any means a duplicate of structure and functioning

People are unique and singular. This theory runs into the problem of explaining how people can be unique. Problems is that structure and functioning is duplicateable and changes in structure and functioning can be very small. We can imagine two or more bodies having the same structure and functioning.

Singular & continuum structure and functioning theories

There are or can be duplicates in structure and functioning but they are not consciously the same and/ or they do not pass the ixperiencit test.

Accepts the continuum nature of structure and functioning and the consequence continuum nature of consciousness. If this is true there can be consciousness that are very closely alike but never identical. But does it follow that there is not the same ixperiencit?

Multiple & discrete structure and functioning theories

Actual physipaths appear to be discrete because they are so different. The argument is that there is not even the potential continuum. This may in fact be true on the very small QM scale

This version we have to use large discreetness rather than qm discreetness

There are two types of discreetness conscious discreetness and structure and functioning discreetness. St and fu discreetness might be qm discrete but on the conscious level we can still have a conscious continuum.

Structure and functioning is a duplicateable and potential is a continuum requires another level of complexity because it has to develop some coherent theory to explain why identity of structure and functioning does not produce the same consciousness and or the same ixperiencit.

We can imagine making small changes in a person until they become some one else. Do these small change also correspond to small change in consciousness?

Since you can logically be transformed into many different people there really is not a specific you. In the end but we still think that we are singular so who are we really?

Conscious existence and identity theories based on the different types of personal identity and existence theories

Another problem with personal identity theories is that they are not based on the ixperiencit principle. They make the assumption that with personal identity you automatically get ixperiencit identity. Or on the other extreme that ixperiencit identity is irrelevant or does not exist, the third reason is that they can not determine any way to determine ixperiencit identity.

Personal identity and existence theories.

These theories are for the purpose of determining personal identity. One problem with theories of personal identity applied to theories of conscious identity and existence is that they assume singularity, linearity, uniqueness, rather than proving these properties from the very beginning.

The following experiments are to show that the singular materialist theories simply do not work. This means that they are not coherent, predictive, or even rational. These experiments also show how totally in the dark souls theories are at predicting who experiences what, when, why, etc.

Problems with experiments with personal identity

These experiments show that theories of personal identity can not be counted on to correctly predict the ixperiencit identity, approximation, and existence.

There are many rational experiments that can be carried out dealing with personal identity.

The same person or personal identity argument are to show singular personal identity through time. The use of this is for the determination of concepts like immortality reincarnation and legal responsibility. The ixperiencit concept determines who experiences what If I experience a consciousness it is a case of survival for me. If I do not experience it, it is not a case of survival for me argument.

Four criterions for personal identity

Experiments with continuousness and continuity of consciousness and body but with a different ending ixperiencit.

There are four previously and usually purposed criterions of personal for identity they are: 1. Continuousness of matter: There is a continuous material object -- the body, that exists continuously through space and time. 2. Continuousness of consciousness: There is a continuousness of consciousness produced by or corresponding to (depending on the type of theory) this body, except for period of sleep, coma, etc. 3. Continuity of matter: Recycling the same matter or continuity of matter by a smooth slow change in matter over time like when a body eats and expel matter over time. 4. Continuity of consciousness: The changes in the consciousness are relatively small so that there is no more change in consciousness from day to day as there would be in a normal person life from day to day.

These concept have all been used in some combination to explain and define personal identity. None of these are the basis of the Continuum & identical multiple conscious existence theory CIMCET. -- best

Four criterions experiments

Layout of experiment: We start with a person, we will call him the original. All the matter that is ever a part of his body is recycled back through his body so at any point in time he is still made of the same matter. He is kept continuously alive and conscious except for periods of sleep or other normal periods of human unconsciousness. Very slowly, changes are made by internal or external sources to the structure and functioning of the body of the original. The changes are so slow and coordinated that they are not noticed by the original in any major way as is the consciousness that he is experiencing. There is no necessary time limit for this process. At the end of this process we have a different person in looks and the way the brain and body functions. This same person is identical to some one that is clearly very different, that we can not say is the same person. The consciousness can change slow enough that if there are no external reminders of this change such as pictures or other people telling him that he has changed it is possible he will not aware of this change in personality, behavior and appearance.

We have a case where the four conditions are meet but the end result is a very different ixperiencit. If this can happen for one person it can happen for any person. Any two persons with different ixperiencits could be joined this way. If the person is kept alive long enough all people could be joined this way. These four criterions are not a good way of predicting the ixperiencit of some one over time and change.

Discussion: Experiments that show that continuous consciousness and body can be slowly transformed into anyone else's. Continuity between all points that are close enough. Not always continuity of consciousness which means the same memories. We do not always get continuity of consciousness from birth to death in people either because there can be so much change in consciousness and structure and functioning of the body. Same person many different consciousness argument

Experimental Tools, processes, concepts: The concept here is that the brain changes over time. It is changed by many different sources -- internal as well as external. These sources can be random or directed for a purpose.

Questions to be answered by experiment: Where does the new ixperiencit come from where does it go upon this change? Where does the old ixperiencit go if there is less than the complete change?

Results of experiment: We have continuous and continuity in body and consciousness. We ended up with a person that is clearly not the same person as the person at the start, So these criterion do not give us a fool proof way of determining the same person. The conscious existence is different. The ixperiencit is different. As far as the original is concerned this would not be a case of survival for the original This is not the same person for

or conscious existence or for survival of death and immortality purposes for the original.

This experiment establishes the concepts of the physicontinuum and awarecontinuum.

There are two results either these four concepts do not determine the same person or being the same person using these concepts is not a good way of determining if

Problems for different theories: If these fundamental concepts can not be relied on to create the same person what can be

Solutions/ predictions of the MCET: Does using the ixperiencit text solve the problem? It does not solve the problem if you simply ask the original at frequent intervals “Do you still experience this consciousness?” They will usually say yes even if they have a very different consciousness. And there are conditions that will make the original think that he is very different from past version of himself when in fact he is not. If the ixperiencit test can not be used to determine if you are the you that you used to be or not what good is it?. If you experience a consciousness or not, is independent of if you think you do. Just because you can not determine personally the consciousness that you were before is independent of the fact that it is or is not actually a consciousness you experience.

Principle derived from experiment: Continuousness and continuity of matter and consciousness is not the way to determine cases of survival or consciousness existence for the original.

Why/how Important?: We have continuity and continuousness of consciousness and matter yet we have a case, or an end result where it is not a case of conscious existence for the original. So the same person is not always a case of conscious existence for the original These four criterions for personal identity do not guarantee conscious identity or existence for the original. Because what we want in survival is actually to be experiencing something, in other words conscious existence, theories of personal identity and existence do not work

Related experiments: The experiments can be imagined for anyone. You can start with anyone and end up with any one else. You can also view the experiments in terms of consciousness; You can start with any consciousness and end up with any other. You do not have to stop there. You can proceed to produce everyone one after another in any sequence keeping the original body alive for as long as needed. So one person could produce the lives of an infinite amount of other people’s finite lives. You can also start with the same person and create any sequential progression of finite lives.

Related experiments results: Body and conscious continuousness and continuity do not guarantee the ixperiencit test for the original.

We start with one person that is continuously consciousness and alive made of the same matter and have produced every person by simply changing the structure and functioning of the body.

Another theory of personal identity is the closest continuer theory. It basic premise is: in determining the personal identity you always choose the person that is the closest material continuation of the original.

                                                                                         the one that is you and all the rest are not. The closest continuer may be ok for external observers but if it does not pass the ixperiencit test, it is not. The closest continuer may or may not be a case of conscious existence for the original.

Four criterions plus memories experiment

Discussion: Another property that has been used to determine personal identity are memories. We don’t always have the same memories and when we do remember the same memories science has found that the mind derives the memory not from complete data that has been stored exactly in the brain but by a process of assimilation and construction we try to make sense of our memories in terms of what we are presently.

There are five things going on that allow the original to have any of the memories of many other people.

1. Memories of the original change over time. So what the original thinks happened in his past life did not happen or was different than he imagined. The original can have memories that are not connected to his past reality. 2. Different people can have identical memories. Two or more different people can have the same memories. 3. Not all memories are remembered at the same time. 4. The memories will gradually change with the change of the structure and functioning of the brain. There can be awareness of this change or not. 5. Because you can cycle back to original’s structure and functioning or close enough to it as necessary you can repeat identical memories at many points in the life period.

There are several ways to connect you to the future or past, memories. the body ixperiencit concept, structure and functioning.

With out memories what are we presently experiencing. With out memories of a past you can still have skills and abilities with out remembering how you gained them. Maybe you do not even have to gain them. If you can create the correct structure and functioning through assembly with out the learning process.

What about understanding the concept of having a future, what does it take for understanding this concept?

Questions to be answered by experiment: If we add the constraint of having the same memories with the four criterions of personal identity do we have an exact way of determining cases of conscious existence for the original?

Layout of experiment: The layout of the experiment is the same as in the four principles argument except the experiment continues where the structure and functioning returns to that of the original then cycling back to the original over and over again going through any number of other consciousness. If there can be change from the first point to the second then there can be the change back, over and over again. Memories of the originals past can be produced periodically. All that is really necessary is that this person looks and acts like the original for external purposes but internally all that is necessary is that the person thinks that he has the same memories of the past he can be totally wrong about the reality of these memories. The only way that he can check for sure is from external sources such as the memory of the dead grandparents looks. Even with these constraints we can make enough change in the brain’s functioning and structure that there is still a very large difference in consciousness. Over time even the behavior can become different for periods of time

Results of experiment: Adding the requirement of identical memories may limit the number of other people that this can cover but it does lead to the same problems. There will still be the case where there will be personal identity but not pass the ixperiencit test or conscious existence for the original

Problems for different theories: Singular theories of personal identity based on the five criterions do not and can not determine cases of conscious existence for the original.

Solutions/ predictions of the MCET:

Related experiments: You can start with any original and with the four criterions and memory you can end up with many other people that are clearly not the original

Principle derived from experiment: The four criterion and memory are not a fool proof way of determinant conscious existence for the original

Related experiments results:

Why/how Important?: This experiments shows that adding the fifth criterion for personal identity still does not guarantee conscious existence for the original.

Four criterions, memories, and external observers experiments

Discussion: Even if the original does not observe the change that is happening to it over time other conscious beings certainly could from an external view point One of the problems in telling personal identity from an external source is that external view point sources can not tell what is happening to the consciousness or the ixperiencit.

of course you can have an identically structure and functioning (cidentireplica) person that diverges in certain ways that actually does see what is happening to the original internally--consciously and can actually

External observers can have incorrect knowledge or they can lie. They can have incomplete knowledge

Questions to be answered by experiment: If we add the condition of external observers can we guarantee that we will have consciousness existence for the original?

Layout of experiment: The lay out of the experiment is the same as in the case of the four criterions and memory. But in this case we have external observers that can remember things about the original like his looks, behavior, but they can not look into the body to see if how much the internal structure and functioning of the brain has changed

Results of experiment: Obviously, we can change the structure and functioning of the brain a great deal with out changing the looks of the person. But can the conscious existence produced by this body change enough to be clearly someone else and still have the behavior that is close enough to the original to make the observer think it is the same person?

People naturally change over time so their personalities do also change so the original could noticeable change but clearly be the a continuation of the conscious existence of the original. There are many possible variation that can occur over time so how will the observers know if this is a naturally occurring change or not?

Problems for different theories: The observer can know many things like that the structure and functioning has changed

Solutions/ predictions of the MCET: An external observer will need to be aware of the structure and functioning of the person and know how this effects the ixperiencit before he can predict if this person is a case of conscious existence for the original at this point

Related experiments:

Related experiments results:

Principle derived from experiment:

Why/how Important?: Even with the five condition and external observers identifying personal identity does not guarantee conscious existence for the original. For the external observer to know if there is conscious existence for the original is to be able to know the structure and functioning of the brain and then know if this is a structure and functioning that produces conscious existence for the original. He has to know if certain changes have occurred to structure and functioning and also know that these limited changes will change consciousness enough. He does not have to know every thing. The observers can be fooled about these changes? How did the observer get this knowledge in the first place?

Should care about this future person? It depends on what you believe

Matter tagging and assimilation experiments

Speed and size of replacement of matter experiments

Saving matter, matter tagging experiments

This experiment shows that there is no matter tagging that exists to tie a consciousness or ixperiencits together or to differentiate between them.

experiment

In this experiment we save the matter that was part of the functioning body of a person over time until we have enough matter saved to be equal to the matter that is in the original presently. We now split the matter that the original is made of into two giving each successor original fifty percent of the original matter. We now make up the difference with the matter we have saved. The two successor originals are made fully of matter that was part of the original presently and in the past. The way the matter is divided into the two successor originals can be in any pattern desired to solve any objections such as: “This successor original has more original matter in the brain than the other one.” each is a cidentireplica of each other so they have the same behavior internally and externally and the same consciousness. They are not the same person but they have the same conscious existence.Which successor original passes the ixperiencit test? Both do! Which one would or should the original want to be or care about? He is in fact both and he should care about both. There is nothing that says that they can not lead different lives so that they diverge consciously and physically. Under this situation which one is the true successor original which one should the original care about?

Definition: matter tagging: Matter tagging is the concept that the matter you were made of during your life and specifically the matter in your body at the present time, has special importance to you, more so than any other matter. How can this be unless there is some special property of this matter or some form of tagging it connecting it to a specific consciousness or soul. Many people believe in matter tagging. that is why they preserve he body after death believing that god or science needs this specific matter for your continued life or life after death.

Saving matter experiments Saving the originals matter and making another copy Making many copies from the matter Division with saving matter from each other replacing to each other For this to have any real meaning there has to be some matter tagging. the matter has to not only has to be from something it has to have some physical property that ties it to that particular past thing. The need for matter tagging disappears when we have structure and functioning. This is the concept that carries on from one stage to the next.

Discussion: For your conscious existence to be connected to a specific body there has to be some sort of matter tagging in other words something that ties a specific piece of matter to a specific consciousness.

Experiment type name and definition:

Questions to be answered by experiment: How can matter tagging exist if there is no way to tag identical bits of matter and connecting that with a specific consciousness?

Layout of experiment: The matter that is in the body is being replaced all the time so if we kept this matter and constructed another person with this matter if matter tagging exists we will have the original being not being the actual continuing person

Results of experiment:

Problems for different theories: Science has not found any matter tagging. Science has found that consciousness is tied to the functioning of the brain

Solutions/ predictions of the MCCET: Structure and functioning is what ties a consciousness to a body not the specific matter itself. Structure and functioning is duplicateable. Tagged matter is not duplicateable.

Related experiments:

Related experiments results:

Principle derived from experiment: A specific consciousness is not tied to a specific group of matter. Matter tagging to consciousness does not exist.

Why/how Important?: Conscious existence is not tied to a specific group of matter. There is no matter tagging so the same body or same matter is not necessary for conscious existence -- immortality

Matter assimilation experiments

This set of experiments shows that there is no assimilation process-- the process of matter tagging for the consciousness or ixperiencit concept. Assimilation is done by matter being assimilating into the structure and functioning of the body.

Definition: Matter assimilation is how matter gets tagged to a particular person consciousness and ixperiencit. In personal identity theories there has to be an tagging assimilation speed other wise you could instantly replace all the matter in a person and say that it is the same person.

Chemical Assimilation speed: Is the speed that matter is assimilated into the body after breathing or eating food. Chemical assimilation speed has nothing to do with tagging assimilation speed. This is a scientific concept that can be measured and that varies as the physical conditions vary. Matter is assimilated into the structure of the body. There is no matter tagging going on. The same element or molecule can be equally used in any part of the body or anyone else's body.

Tagging assimilation speed limit: The fastest speed that you can replace matter in a person and have the same person. A conjectured unscientific concept

Discussion: defining the concept of assimilation of matter for structure and functioning purposes.

Questions to be answered by experiment: Does the speed of replacement of matter in the body effect the conscious existence of the person original? If the speed of tagging assimilation does matter, why does it matter? How fast can you replace matter in the body? Does the size of the matter or part of the body matter? When does a piece of matter become irreplaceable and why?

If a ixperiencit disappear or a new one appears where and why did this happen?

Where does the new ixperiencit come from where does it go upon fusion? Where does the old ixperiencit go if there is less than the specific requirements?

Layout of experiment:

Results of experiment:

Problems for different theories: If there is no assimilation speed limit then there can be instantaneous replacement of matter

Solutions/ predictions of the MCET:

Related experiments:

Related experiments results:

Principle derived from experiment: The speed of replacement of matter does not effect the consciousness produced if the structure and functioning remain the same.

Why/how Important?:

Fission and percentage division of matter experiments

Experiments with fission

divide into two equal amounts of matter equal amounts but in specific places one gets the brain the other gets the body body matter goes to make up the brain less that fifty percent

divide into to several persons equal division random

speed of fission assimilation of matter time and lack of functioning

percent of same matter

In the case of fission it has be argued that if less than half of the matter is not the original then it is not a case of personal survival. If it is not a case of personal survival for the original who is it a case of survival for? This other person is miraculously created has exactly the same consciousness as the original but has some other ixperiencit. Which one disappears upon fusion

Fission experiments

Split brain different bodies experiment

The split brain experiment is where the brain is taken out of a person, split evenly in half, and the two halves are installed in two new bodies. The bodies can be identical. Which of the two is the original? There has been proposed three solutions, neither one is the original. One of them is and one of them is not or that both of them are. The third possibility has two variation. First there are two bodies and one persons; one person occupies both bodies. The second is that the first person has split into two and is now two people that are the original. First the structure and functioning theory would say that neither one is because with only half of a brain the body could not survive. Because we are talking about half of a brain stem. Assuming that you can make the two survive they could be in a coma, or their consciousness’s are going to be so different from that of the original there is a good change there would not be a consciousness produced by either that is like the original at all. What ever The consciousness produced, because both sides are so different and no longer influenced by each other the consciousness of each will be very different.

Switch brain experiment

In this experiment the brain of the original 1 is placed in another body of original 2 and the brain of original 2 is placed in the body of original 1. You could say that they switched bodies or they switched brains. Since the brain weights about three pounds and a body can weight over fifty times more if it is the property of the matter that is important or the looks of the person then original #1 is still original #1 and original #2 is still original #2. Until science understood the nature of the brain most people would have considered the brain to be just another organ like the liver and the switching was no more important than switching the liver. Now days it is scientifically agreed that the brain is the producer of consciousness. So it is not the amount of matter that counts but the importance of what that matter does. This experiment shows that it is not the amount of matter that is switched but the importance of the matter in terms of producing consciousness that is important.

Split brain and body into 2 with identical replacement

In this revised experiment of the split brain experiment we duplicate the other half of the brain so that it will function just like the original.

Questions to be answered by experiment: If we divide a person into two equal parts and replace the missing parts with the identical matter with the same structure and functioning which will be the original person? Why will there be only one original? Which one will continue the conscious existence of the original?

Layout of experiment: You divide one person into two equal parts so each have 50 percent of the matter of the original and fill in the rest with other matter keeping functioning and structure identical in both. so behavior is the same They both think they are the original person and both have the same memories and secrets that only the original knew. Which is the continuation of the original? Which is a continuation of the original’s consciousness.

Results of experiment: The arguments for personal identity are irrelevant when it comes to conscious identity

Problems for different theories: Some proposed theories are that one has it and one does not, or that neither does. But where does the old consciousness existence go and where does the new ones come from? If there is just one soul then just one of the decedents can have that soul. Since either one has just as much right to the soul as the other, rule is used to determine which one gets the soul.

Solutions/ predictions of the MCET: the theory says that both have a continuation of conscious existence of the original

Both have the same consciousness both are a continuation of the same matter they have continuousness of the same consciousness, they have the same memories. There is no reason to say that one is the original and one is not. Which one will continue life for the original? It is a paradox for singular theories. There is no problem for multiple conscious existence. They both are cidentireplicas of each other so they have the same consciousness and the same ixperiencit.

Why/how Important?:

Uneven split of brain matter experiment

The matter from the original’s brain is not evenly split in this experiment. It can be a difference of one atom, to any percentage like 25% to one 75%, to one gets only one atom. Some philosophers have purposed that in a 50/50 split the one that has the most matter is the one that is the continuation of the original person but what about the point where there is just atoms apart? The concept of personal identity is irrational if the replacement of one atom destroys the self and some one else pop up in its place. If one atom actually makes this much difference then switching this one atom will be switching

Split brain and body into 2 with non identical replacement

In this experiment the bodies are split, but the additional material is not replaced in the same exact structure. If you do not have the same structure you will not get the same functioning. If the functioning is not close enough to that of the original’s you do not have the same behavior. Which implies that you are getting a different consciousness produced. If the replaced matter is structured enough different enough the body can not even survive. Some where in between identical structure and structures that produce death, will be structures that will change the way the body and brain function and when this happens there will be a change in the consciousness produced.

The two diverge in structure and functioning with equal or unequal amounts of matter

When we imagine something happening to ourselves or someone else in the present or the past the brain functions some what like it would if this actually would have happened rather than just imagined. This gives us evidence that we could have actually experienced the real thing if the correct structure and functioning had happened. So when we split the original into two we have good reason to believe that the original could have experienced either one

One of the conclusions has been that since there has to be just one person that is the original but there are good reason to believe that many can have good reason to be you there is not a clear you

A matter of decision is a cop out

Fission --3 many

The original is divided into three or more equal parts and the rest of the body is made from external matter that forms the same structure and functioning. Which one now is the continuation of the original?

Results of experiment: A multiple theory says that all are a continuations of the consciousness of the original. Singular theories says that at most only one can be the physical continuation of the original.

Principle derived from experiment: No matter how many divisions are made all will be a identireplicas of each other. Thus they will have identical consciousnesses

Why/how Important?:

Levels of fission or fission after fission

What happen when we divide the original over and over again? We can imagine dividing the first person into 2 or more people but then we can take these people and divide then into 2 or more people this process can be imagined going on as long as desired. If one side is clearly a continuation of the original and the other is not because it has a greater percentage of matter then when it is divided it will have even less of the original matter so with ever division there will be less and less of the matter from the original.

There are several possible solution again. First, there is no continuation of the original. Second, one is the continuation of the original and all the rest are not. Third several are and the rest are not. Fourth, All are. Fifth all of their consciousness are one. Or that the first set of divisions have more right than later divisions. The problem is there is just a random choice no scientific reasons for selection

We can set it up so that all have equal claim but latter we can set it up so that there is difference

Results of experiment:

Problems for different theories:

Solutions/ predictions of the MCET:

Related experiments:

Related experiments results:

Principle derived from experiment:

Why/how Important?:

Fusion after fission experiments

fusion-- combining In cases of fusion where does the other person’s personal identity go?

If we can divide a person into two or more we can also combine two or more conscious bodies into one. In this experiment the original is divided into two or more parts as in the above fission cases. They exist long enough so that they are considered separate actual beings. Now take fifty percent of each one and combine it with fifty percent of the other one. Now we have two people with

If there are actually two souls or person essence’s, Where does this extra consciousness, soul, or self, go upon fusion and which gets chosen and how?

Results of experiment:

Problems for different theories: Singular theories of personal identity when used for determining personal identity simply do not work because they are irrational and are not based on science.

This theory is very clear if two or more separate people are fused into one it does not matter what percentage of matter comes form which or who they are it only matters what the ending structure and functioning is.

Brain of one into the body of another

Why/how Important?:

Fusion of 2 very separate different people

In this experiment you take two different people with two very different consciousnesses. They have the same mass and the same numbers of atoms of the same element. You take fifty percent of the atoms from one and exchange it with 50 percent of the atoms from the other keeping the structure and functioning of each original the same. Original 1 is now made of fifty percent of the matter of original 2 and visa versa. Original 1 has the same structure and functioning as it would have with out the switch of matter thus it

In another version of this experiment they do not have to have an equal amounts of matter. We can consider a one to one atom switch of matter.

These experiments show that singular personal identity does not make sense when we deal with conscious identity and existence. There is simple no scientific answer for these experiments that do not cause all sorts of problems or paradoxes. The problems simply disappear when we have a multiple theory

The multiple and continuum theory of conscious existence and identity has clear answers to each question where as all the others theories do not.

We are pushed into multiplicity because singularity does not work rationally or scientifically. Even though it may not be intuitive. Many scientific concepts are not intuitive

Conscious existence and identity based on the different types of soul identity and existence.

Can we base a theory of conscious existence and identity on a soul concept theory? First there will have to be some way of relating a specific soul to a specific consciousness and ixperiencit. Since there is no way to do experiments on souls there is no way of determining any information of this kind. Thus conscious existence and identity theories based on the different types of soul identity and existence theories will not be based on experimentation and thus are not scientific.

Soul concept type theories:

Why do we include the soul like theories when they are not scientific or reality based (true) theories? This is because many religions believe in soul like concepts thus billions of people believe in souls. Soul theories are a literary theory because of uses like “loosing your soul to the devil”. They have meaning in studies of fictional and supernatural, writings, discussions and belief systems. And in a experience machine created worlds. Soul types theories deal with existence and identity of souls. The vehicle is the soul and the criterion are the properties that make the same soul over time. One of many possible imaginary/ fictional or supernatural theories. You can not know about a soul because you can not study it. Consequently, for any properties that you give the soul, there are no ways to test to see if they are correct or not. If numerous properties, many contradictory, are equally valid how can you predict with any accuracy anything about conscious existence, life after death, or immortality, etc. I will give several examples from a very large group of possible different properties of souls that there is no way of determining scientifically which are correct. Basically “soul” is a unscientific poorly defined word because it has so many possible different meanings

1. There is a soul but it dies (dissolves, disappears, etc.) with the death of the body. 2. There is a soul but is disintegrated slowly (and painfully or contently) after the body dies. 3. There is a soul but it never can combine with a different body again. 4. There is a soul that exists for ever after the death of the body but it is never conscious again. 5. There is a soul it exists forever it can rejoin the body but it has to know how to do it. But since it is not knowledgeable or intelligent or conscious enough it never can reunite with a body again. 6. Some people have souls and some do not. 7. There are types of souls with many different properties like ability to be mortal or immortal. 8. Not only bodies have souls but souls have souls. 9. Souls reincarnate into other souls. Like souls reincarnate into other animals bodies. 10. Some souls are conscious and some are not. 11. Souls exist but they have nothing to do with conscious existence or identity. 12. Souls reincarnate but they loose all conscious existence. So it is like being some one else. 13. Souls are infinitely big in a soul universe that is infinitely small. 14, 15, 16, ...... The list about possible properties of souls can be made endless. When there are many possibilities the probability of any particular one being correct when there is little no empirical, rational, -- scientific reason to accept one over the other makes the probability of any one very small. We can never know about souls unless we can study them and since they have never been found to actually exist we can not study them. Any proof that you develop for any one of the morass of possible soul theories will not be empirical. It will be at best a rational argument based on any number of other questionable basic principles.

h- soul experience life on earth once and then goes to heaven or hell r- soul reincarnation soul e- soul natural a soul that sticks around on earth as a ghost etc d- soul a disconnected soul never to experience life in a body as a human again

The fact that there have been so many properties or different types of souls that have been imagined but never verified, is another reason to question the reality of souls One of the defenses of soul theories is that they are supernatural and can not be understood using science, logic, math, rationality, or experimentation etc. This makes supernatural concepts incoherent with what we know. They are Unable to predict or explain the reality that they supposedly produce.

Other major problems with soul like theories are:

1. Identification problem how do you tell souls apart 2. Decision process problems such as where it goes? why it goes? how it goes? And what makes this determination natural laws or a conscious decider? 3. Memory is lost what is left

How are souls created how are they destroyed? If you say god does it, that statement does not explain anything. It makes a more complex theory because you have to explain how and why god does it and explain about the properties of god. There can be endless postulations about how this is done as well.

What is the connection between consciousness and the soul? The real reason that the concept of a soul has been postulated is for a way to have life after death. The body dies and it no longer produces behavior or consciousness. How then can we have any hope of life after death? There has to be something that does not die with the death of the body. Thus the postulation of a soul that is not tied to the death of the body. The problem is that we want conscious existence. And we want to experience this conscious existence. Having a soul that does not die does not guarantee conscious existence any more than the fact that matter and energy are immortal -- continue to exist for at least for billions or trillions of years. Because on death, the matter that you were made of is immortal it just changes it structure and placement. The existence of souls do not guarantee conscious existence or that you will ever experience anything again.

Needs a soul existence and identity theory. Soul identity and existence is not conscious identity and existence. Even if there is a soul you still need a scientific theory of conscious existence and identity. Where is the proof that the same soul can not have many different conscious existences. And that one conscious identity and existence can not be applied to many different souls. The concept of a soul adds very little understanding about conscious life after death. It just complicates the issues. We have such an ingrained view of ourselves as linear and singular that we have invented the concept of a soul to perpetuate this illusion.

Reincarnation type theories

The vehicle is something beyond a body like a soul that goes from one living organism to the next upon death. The criterion are the believed natural rules of reincarnation. There is no scientific basis for reincarnation. There is no way to do experiments on reincarnation.

Reincarnation type theories are a type of soul theory. As a consequence it has the same problems that soul theories do plus the problems that the concept of reincarnation adds. Reincarnation theories do not seem to care about conscious identity and existence or structure and functioning of the body. Science knows that low level animals have a different level of conscious existence than humans do so when a person gets reincarnated into a lower level life form such a cow or insect there will not be the conscious experiences of a human produced. Memories of previous lives and their corresponding experiences are lost or destroyed.

Identification problem is more difficult because there is not the same type of behavior in lower animals. Animals must then have same type of soul like object as humans

Decision process problem where it goes why it goes how it goes natural laws or a conscious decider Memory is lost There appears to be little if any memory of previous lives of lower level animals such as flies and cows etc. The term r-soul is a shorted version of the concept of a reincarnation soul.

Reincarnation theories can not predict where someone's r-soul is going in the next life. It does not explain why or how a particular r-soul is being reincarnated into a particular human or animal body. The thinkers that developed reincarnation ideas had very limited understanding of how consciousness is produced. It is based on an ideas of singularity and immortality of the self and the hope for universal moral justice. The purpose of a soul is to allow singularity, that seems self evident, and immortality or a least life after death, The concept of reincarnation adds the concept that the universe is a just place by rewarding people that have lived a good just life by giving them a better life in the future and punishing them that have not by making them a lower level person or animal.

Not experimentally based not based on the web of scientific information. The only supposed scientific reason for thinking that reincarnation might be possible is that people think, feel, believe, that they have existed before and believe that they have actual knowledge of these previous lives. What reincarnation has going for it is that it gives people hope in thinking there is an after life. It is relatively simple appears to make the world a just place. But these you can accomplish all of these things with the SFXmc theory plus a lot more.

Another problem with soul identity theories is that they are not based on the ixperiencit principle. They make the assumption that with soul identity you automatically get ixperiencit identity. Or on the other extreme that ixperiencit identity is irrelevant or does not exist. The third reason is that they can not determine any way to determine ixperiencit identity. Just because you can not determine ixperiencit identity easily does not mean it is not the critical element in understanding survival, life after death, and immortality. Is the ixperiencit concept an imaginary concept? Most people think that there is something that ties them together over time. They think that there was a past and there can be a future of experience that they will or have experienced plus the moment that they are experiencing now. They see this in others as a body so the conclusion is that you are a body. But the body dies which would imply that your body will die as well. Thus the invention of dualism and the soul that gives a separation from a dead body.