First Rational Experiment Argument Part 1

1st rational experiment

The first rational experiment that we will consider is that of the existence of a cidentireplica of a living conscious person. By definition, in the first experiment, what we have is one living conscious person and one continuously, identically functioning replica. What we specifically want to know about in this first rational experiment is: What are the mental and conscious attributes of the cidentireplica? Does it have a sense of self and is that sense of self identical to that of the original’s?

The first thing that we can observe is that the original and the cidentireplica look exactly alike. This is no surprise because it is in the definition-- an identical replica is going to look identical to the original or it will not be an identical replica. If the original did not all of a sudden die, the cidentireplica could be observed having the some kind of behavior as the original such as sleeping, talking, moving, etc. What would the cidentireplica do or how would it behave? By definition the cidentireplica will be functioning exactly the same as the original. So, if a muscle is contracted in the original it will be contracted in the cidentireplica. If the vocal cords are being vibrated, as occurs in human speech, in the original they will be vibrating exactly the same way in the cidentireplica. If the blood pressure in the original is 120 over 80, with a heart beat rate of 85 per minute then the cidentireplica will have the same exact readings at the exact same time. Every physical aspect of the cidentireplica is the same as the original, and every change in the original is exactly the same as is every change in the cidentireplica. But the cidentireplica does not occupy the same place as the original nor does it contain the same matter or energy as the original.

The behavior that the cidentireplica displays will be exactly the same as the original. Why would one body behave exactly like another if their bodies have the same structure and function identically? For the bodies to function identically each part of the bodies must function identically. So each neuron must fire at the same time. Each muscle must contract at the same time. Even every atom must move in the same direction at the same time. What's more, every photon or other subatomic particle must be emitted and absorbed at the same time in the same direction with the same amount of energy. If nerve impulses were sent to the arm to move in the original person's body, then by definition the exact same signal would be sent in the exact same way in the body of the cidentireplica. All movements are the same for both individuals. All changes in both the original and the cidentireplica are the same. As a result their manner of conducting themselves is the same. By definition their behavior is the same. If the original says a word then the cidentireplica says the word at the same time in the same way with the same apparent emotion. All outward signs of emotions, feelings, passion, etc. are the same. However, the original person by definition is not causing the cidentireplica to act or vice versa. They are functioning identically in unison by definition. If any behavior is different then they are not functioning identically and the conditions of the experiment are violated.

So far, based on the premises of this rational experiment, the cidentireplica looks and behaves like a person. Unless we have other information about this cidentireplica’s body that would negate his “personness” we would consider the cidentireplica to be a person.

In this rational experiment the only other information that we have, or are given, about the cidentireplica is that he is a cidentireplica. It may be possible that being a cidentireplica means that you are not a person but there is no proof or good reason to believe that this is the case. If no one knew that the cidentireplica was a cidentireplica he would be considered a person, and would be considered the original if, his cidentireplica status was not known and the original was not around. Most people, if they didn't know otherwise, would consider the cidentireplica as being just another person and the or an original. A cidentireplica can take the place of the original for all external and behavioral purposes.

We have established that an exact functioning replica of a person will be a person in all external characteristics…or aspects. This is not a surprising result it follows from the definition of a cidentireplica. This leads us to the questions of what are the mental attributes e.g. feelings, memories, desires, abilities, knowledge, etc. of the cidentireplica? Scientifically we can not yet look into the mind or consciousness of the cidentireplica for the answer, unless you are the cidentireplica, but we can ask questions to the cidentireplica and see how the cidentireplica responds. The cidentireplica will be able to respond if the original can, and he will respond exactly in the same way as the original does as long as his body functions identically to that of the original’s. If you asked the original if he has a mind or was conscious his response could be any number of responses from "no!" to "yes!" and any version in between. For instance, he might say "Certainly I have a mind! I am consciously answering you. What a stupid question! I have the desire to knock you up the side of the head for questioning such a thing!". If this was the response of the original then it would be the response of the cidentireplica or visa versa, because their behaviors are identical. One type of question might be: “Tell me something that only you would know about your inner consciousness like memories, feelings, or ideas etc. that you have had and have shared with no one else?” Again, because the cidentireplica functions exactly like the original he will respond exactly like the original. How did he know the correct answer? Within the structure and functioning of the cidentireplica is this personal information. The same way it is stored in the original. (Identical behavior and personality argument)

If we gave the original a number to remember then asked the cidentireplica what number it was the cidentireplica would give the same answer as the original. If the original remembered the answer correctly the cidentireplica would have also. If the original forgot some of the digits and replaced them with other he though were correct the cidentireplica would do the same. If the original decided to make up a completely different number just for the heck of it the cidentireplica would give the same number. And if later asked why he did this the cidentireplica would say I did it just to be different just like the original said he did it for. (Identical knowledge argument)

If we asked the cidentireplica about his past life he will describe it with just the same emotions, feelings, and accuracy as the original does with bouts of crying when thinking about dead friends and relatives to pride for the accomplishments in his life like saving lives, fighting in a war, having children, building houses etc. The cidentireplica would believe that he actually experienced these things himself if the original believed it. He would even believe memories of things that never happened to him if the original believed they happened to him but in fact did not. (Identical memories argument)

The cidentireplica will have the same knowledge, memories, behavior, personality, as the original and produce them at the exact time as the original. It is not the specific matter, space, time, that carries the memories, skills, information of experiences, numbers, the originals life’s memories, expressions of feelings, emotions, desires, intentions, and motivations, of a person, it is the structure and functioning of that matter and energy of the body specifically the brain that produces all these abilities .

Passing a verbal, behavioral etc. quiz no matter how extensive, does not prove that the cidentireplica has a mind nor that he is conscious. What it does show is that the cidentireplica seems like he has a mind and consciousness but this might only show that he is a complicated processor of verbal and other types of information. Information that is stored within the structure and functioning of the cidentireplica’s body. We also cannot prove that the original has a mind or consciousness either. Unknown to us, the original may be a cidentireplica and not the original after all or an unconscious automaton. We can only tell if we ourselves have a mind or consciousness, not if other people do. Our own judgment of our own consciousness is totally subjective. You/we may only seem to ourselves to be conscious when in reality we are in fact not. We make the assumption that other people are conscious because we have been taught that other people are conscious. We also have experiences that tend to support the belief that other people are conscious. One reason is because they seem to behave like us in similar situations. Another reason, I think, is because we want to believe that there are other conscious beings or consciousnesses besides one’s own in the universe --- we do not want to imagine ourselves as totally alone in the world full of unconscious but animate beings. It is also an unlikely possibility that you (I) should be the only conscious being that exists. Because you have to ask yourself why you of all people should be the one and only conscious person that exists or possibly has ever existed. There are few persuasive rational reasons for this.

No matter what human science has done yet it has never been able to see the mind or consciousness within another being. As a result science cannot tell if a person or thing is conscious and what that consciousness is. The scientific materialist view is that some how the functioning of the brain and nervous system produces consciousness. It is mine and many other scientists and philosophers belief that some day we will be able to look at the structure and functioning of the brain and nervous system, and predict much more information about the consciousness that is being produced than we can know. What scientists can do now is look at some of the functioning, changes, or processes that are occurring in his own brain when he is conscious and then compare that to other’s brains to see if the same type of functioning is occurring. If it is, then the assumption is made that, consciousness is occurring in others. When these types of functioning are not happening within the brain, scientists and doctors make the judgment that the person is brain dead and no longer conscious. Scientists also know that when certain areas of the brain do not function or function improperly, irregularly, or divergently there is a loss or divergence in certain types of consciousness. It is very clear, scientifically, that the brain’s structure and functioning is what is producing and changing human consciousness.

What the mentality of the cidentireplica might be can be organized into several generalized possibilities.

The first possibility, and the one that I believe is the simplest, most logical and the one we have the most scientific evidence to support, is that the cidentireplica is conscious in exactly the same way as the original. In other words the cidentireplica and the original are the same person mentally with the exact same sense of self. This does not mean that they are conscious of each other or have a spiritual connection or psychic communication of some sort. Under most circumstances they would not even be aware that each other exists.

It is very important at this point to understand what this possibility actually means. Since you are your mentality, the cidentireplica is not just another person with your mentality, it is actually “you” within another person. If a cidentireplica exists of you there will be two of you. We are not talking about clones of you. Clones of you will have different consciousnesses than you do unless they have (nearly) identical physical structure and functioning. A Cidentireplica will have the same DNA as the original however, normally clones will not have the same physical structure and functioning as the original because they have not had the same exact environmental conditions as the original. The body of a clone can have one of many physical constructions that are different from the original and can function with any one of the many different permutations of the original’s functioning thus producing many different permutation or versions of consciousness.

This simple concept that identical structure and functioning of bodies produce identical consciousness is at the foundation of the following Science of consciousness. Even if this Science is not totally complete (scientific theories become more complex over time) it lays the foundation for a very informative scientific and mathematical study of consciousness. If you cannot accept the first possibility then consider the reasons against the following possibilities being as valid or as likely.

The second possibility (non conscious existence/zombie argument)

The second possibility is that the cidentireplica has no mental attributes, is not conscious or has no mind, even though the cidentireplica behaves like it is conscious. This possibility would imply that people can exist and behave like a person with normal brain functioning yet have no consciousness. The consequence of this is that a functioning apparently normal brain does not always produce consciousness. For this possibility to be correct means that the original has to have some tangible quality that the cidentireplica does not. Since we make the assumption of scientific materialism we will not say that the original has a “mind substance” or a soul and the cidentireplica does not. Science has not found, nor has good reasons to believe that, mind substances or soul exist. The only scientific difference between the original and cidentireplica is that they are not made of the same matter and energy and they are not in the same place. What, in being in a different place or being made of different but identically functioning matter and energy, can cause there to be a difference in the consciousness?

We are left with the assumption that only certain matter and energy in certain places will produce consciousness. We can divide this into two conditions the placement of matter, and the constituent of matter. If the placement of matter is what causes consciousness then if conscious beings move into areas in (livable) space where consciousness cannot exist they will no longer be conscious until they move out of those spots. If an original can move into and out of those spots so should a cidentireplica be able to. Thus making the cidentireplica conscious along with the original.

Humans are constantly in motion on the earths surface as it rotates. The earth surface is in constant motion around the sun. The sun is in motion around the galaxy and the galaxy is in motion in the universe. Although it is possible, it is unlikely that we are in the same place twice in the universe twice. I do not experience coming in and out of consciousness in this movement through space. And science has not found any existence of such events. If they had, it certainly would be a big deal. So, in respect to the production of consciousness, space appears to be uniform, at least where we are currently traveling through. Consequently, the particular space is not effecting the production of consciousness and a cidentireplica in a different (livable) place than the original should still be conscious. To just assume, without scientific justification, that space in of itself effects consciousness is requiring a more complex theory because we must explain why and how this effect happens and functions.

If it is the particular matter and not only the functioning of the matter that produces consciousness then we will have certain atoms of matter that will produce consciousness and certain atoms of matter that will not. This makes for a much more complicated theory of matter and energy, because we now need to explain why, for example, some sub atomic particles, atoms, and molecules, will produce consciousness and why some will not. We have to be able to determine and understand why photon A, quark A, carbon atom A, DNA molecule A, or cell A can be a functioning part of consciousness, and identical photon B, quark B, carbon atom B, DNA molecule B, or cell B cannot produce or be a functioning part of consciousness.

We also have to explain what happens when non conscious producing matter is intermingled with conscious producing matter. I am not talking about drugs or poisonous foods. Drugs and poisonous chemicals are a different arrangement of chemical elements that effect the functioning of the brain. If these elements were arranged into different non toxic chemicals they would not have these effects on consciousness. I am using the term non consciousness rather than unconsciousness because people are frequently unconsciousness due to sleeping, drugs, comas or brain trauma.

If one piece of non consciousness producing matter is introduced into a conscious person does that person become unconscious even though everything else especially the functioning of the brain is the same? I think this is a very unlikely possibility and we have no scientific reason to believe it can or does occur. In a practical situation, if it is the specific matter and energy not only its structure and functioning that is responsible for consciousness, since all of us eat and drink and breathe new matter (food, water, air), we then could also become non conscious as we utilize to much of the “wrong” kind of matter. If there is a lot of this “wrong” kind of matter in the world, it could easily spread through the wind and rain making us all susceptible to becoming non conscious.

We know that we can take matter (in the form of food, water air) from any part of the earth and we have conscious people (children) develop and survive from that matter. This is because people grow up eating food made of matter that comes from all around the world and are not non conscious because of this matter. If there were this weird kind of matter that effects consciousness in ways other than through its structure and functioning, what people would feel is the coming in and out of awareness of themselves and their environment like being in and coming out of comas. Thus peoples’ behavior would vary from acting normally to lying down unconscious like a vegetable. Or on the other hand, you would be acting normally and functioning normally and not being conscious at all about what has happened to you in these periods of non consciousness. People would find themselves in the middle of a place that they do not remember going to, with people telling them things that they did, that they have no memory of doing. Some people do say that things happen to them -- that they are totally unaware of. In most of the cases we know it is drugs or alcohol that produces this. In other situations it is the abnormal or malfunctioning functioning of the brain caused by stroke, disease or injury. Being objective about my subjective consciousness I do not experience non consciousness.

Even if there does exist these types of complexity with matter and energy and space a cidentireplica will be just as likely to produce consciousness as any original if it is in the right place made of the right matter. Although we cannot be sure of any one else's consciousness most people believe that other people are conscious which supports the belief that most matter in most space can in fact produce consciousness. Consequently, all then that would be necessary for the cidentireplica to be conscious would be the correct matter in the correct places exactly the same as for any original person.

There is now only one situation that is so specific that we cannot ever produce a conscious cidentireplica. This is the case where matter, energy and space is consciousness specific. This means that there is no space and, or, no matter besides what the original utilizes at that particular time that can produce a specific consciousness. For this to be the case we have to say that this particular atom has be in exactly this place at this time and all the other atoms in this conscious body have to be at their correct place at this time and at every future time as long as that body is conscious. We can again break this into two sub cases. The first case is where one place has to be tied to one consciousness. If the conscious body is not in its correct space at the correct time no consciousness is produced. But since we are traveling through space we would have the condition that a particular consciousness has to be tied to a long thin volume of space. Because each atom is moving itself, each atom is progressing through a very thin ribbon of space within but unique from the whole body. If this is the case any time the conscious body or even an atom within the body moves out side of its necessary domain in space it will not be conscious( produce consciousness). And it will not be conscious until it moves back into that space. This makes a world where if I step or am pushed into the wrong place I will no longer be conscious until I come back into the right place. There is the even more difficult problem of what space all the atoms should be in. This is because they are in random motion due to heat. So one random cosmic ray that knocks out of place just one atom will make the body non conscious.

If we have to have exactly the right matter to produce consciousness we have an even greater problem because we are consuming and expelling energy, atoms, molecules, and cells, then replacing them all the time. If only one set of matter is correct for each conscious body at any one time, if we eat or breath in but one wrong subatomic particle or prematurely lose a cell or even a heat produced infrared photon we will no longer be conscious. If the correct atoms were lost into the environment it would be next to impossible to find that correct collection of matter again.

For there to exist uniqueness of consciousness produced by the uniqueness of space and matter not just its uniqueness of functioning and structure, we would have to be able to explain why each unique ribbon of space and flow of matter and energy through the body produce a particular consciousness. And only that particular consciousness. This is obviously much more complex than just postulating that the structure and functioning of the matter and energy is the determining factor. If either or both of these situations existed consciousness would not be as abundant as it appears to be in people.

We have dealt with the possibility where a cidentireplica of a conscious original has no consciousness now we will swing to the other extreme where the cidentireplica has a more complex consciousness than the original.

The mere possible existence of zombies is used as an argument against materialism. The assumption is always that if there is a zombie the factor causing it will be a non physical cause. The possible existence of zombies could just as easily be a physical cause. Since there has been no good non physical cause of zombies postulated it is just as likely to be a physical cause.

POSSIBILITY THREE (the cidentireplica is more conscious argument)

Possibility three is where the cidentireplica has a consciousness that is more complex or more conscious than the originals. We have scientific proof that the more complex the structure and functioning of the nervous system the more complex the behavior and usually the consciousness that is produced. Generally a more extensive (larger) nervous system can have a more complex structure and functioning. But a more extensive nervous system does not necessarily imply more of any particular type of consciousness. For example some whales have larger brains than humans but the consciousness that this extra size produces is predicted to be a lower level consciousness because much of this extra brain capacity deals with the extra nerves coming from the larger body.

The brain has the ability to slow down both its consciousness and its behavior. For example, when we are sleeping our consciousness and behavior are at lower levels of functioning complexity than when we are awake. This shows that the extent and amount of functioning in a brain will effect consciousness.

Human brains are larger and more complex than those of mice, as a result our behavior is much more complex than that of a mouse. Thus we believe that we are more conscious than a mouse. This does not mean that a mouse or other life form with smaller and less complex brains cannot experience a consciousness different than what we can. For example a bat has a consciousness that relates to a type of sonar which we do not. We do not know how complicated the bats consciousness about sonar is. It may be complex but not integrated into higher levels of consciousness or awareness that humans have. There are people that have brains as large as normal but clearly do not produce the behavior that we take to mean that they are as smart or consciousness in the way that normal people are.

We can summarize this principle: Generally simpler structure, functioning and less extensive neural systems will have a lower level of complexity of behavior and consciousness than more extensive neural systems with more complex structure and functioning. When this principle is applied to cidentireplicas they should produce a consciousness that is approximately as complicated as the originals. In specific terms a mouse will generally not be producing behavior or consciousness that is as complex as a human’s consciousness. But the mouse will generally produce a more complex behavior and consciousness than a cockroach. It seems reasonable that we can eliminate many consciousnesses for the cidentireplica that are more complex than its functioning would allow. If we can eliminate the upper extremes of consciousness for a particular cidentireplica we can also eliminate the lower extremes as well with the same argument in reverse. Since our nervous systems are not the simplest of the different animals the complexity of our behavior and consciousness will not be the simplest either. We are left dealing with a band complexity of consciousness and behavior centered around the consciousness of the original. (Complexity of functioning and specificity of structure argument) (Complexity argument)