Itoarguments part 10

File name -- 9 group #8 arguments File created date -- 07:09 pm Sunday, October 12 2003

Existence proof for potential physicontinuum

How do you prove the existence of a potential physicontinuum? Being potential means that it does not currently exist as an actual physicontinuum. What it means is that it exists in the sense that individual parts can actually exit and the rest can be imagined in a logical scientific constructible way. The proof is then a knowledge existence proof. Then the question is how much knowledge is required about a potential physicontinuum to prove its potential existence?

An existence proof for the existence of potential physicontinuum begins with showing that physipaths can potentially exist. Then showing that there are many different potential physipaths. Finally, showing that one or more grouping strategies can exist that can order the potential physapaths into continuum structures. The physipath usually represents all of the physical aspects of a physical object over time or the object's life time. Within awaretheory, ixperiencit theory of consciousness, and the science of superimmortality it represents the physical aspects of a consciousness producing body. For example, a human body over its life time. There are billions of people that exist now, and billions of people that have existed in the past, and hopefully there will be many people that exist in the future that do not exist now. Each human physipath will be made of different matter, in different places within the body, and changing places with other matter within the body and matter from outside of the body. This process can happen at different times and speeds, consequently producing different physapaths (structures and functionings) of the body, over the life time of the body. There are obviously an enumerable amount different potential physipaths, of which only a relatively few become actual physipaths.
These potential physipaths can be grouped in numerous amounts of different ways. Some of which will form continuum structures.

Existence proof for potential physacontinuum

An existence proof for the existence of potential physacontinuum begins with showing that physapaths can potentially exist. Then showing that there are many different potential physapaths. Finally, showing that one or more grouping strategies can exist that can order the potential physapaths into continuum structures. The physapath represents the way the brain is structured, and then how it functions and the structure changes over time. Each human body has a structure and then functions over its life time. We know that there are billions of people thus billions of actual physapaths existing now, and likely they are all different. There have been billions of people that have died. Their physapaths are no longer actual but they are still potential physapaths. If people exist into the future, there are a very large amount of potential physapaths that have not been created yet but will be. Between any two potential or actual existing physapaths that are not identical, there are other physapaths that are potential also.

There are many different ways of grouping physapaths where the physapaths that are more like each other in this sense are closer together. So moment between the physapaths in the continuum within an particular defining concept is a matter of very small or the smallest amount of change possible. An analogy are the real numbers on a number line. The jump or difference between the numbers can be a step of 500,10, 1, .1, .001, .000007 etc. The step in a continuum does not have to be a constant size. The point is that the physapath that are most alike in one or more ways are assigned in the continuum to be the closest together. A continuum does not have to be just a number line but can be a structure with any number of dimensions.

Existence proof for potential awarecontinuum

How do you prove the existence of a potential awarecontinuum? An existence proof for the existence of potential awarecontinuums begins with showing that awarepaths can potentially exist. Then showing that there are many different potential awarepaths. Finally, showing that one or more grouping strategies can exist that can order the potential awarepaths into continuum structures. The awarepath represents the consciousness that a body produces over time. There are billions of people that exist and most people believe that they are conscious, were conscious in the past, and will be conscious into the future for variable amounts of time. There appear to be many different actual awarepaths. Actual awarepaths are a subset of the set of potential awarepaths because before and after they are actual they were potential. Being actual is just adding an aspect of being potential that is removed upon the death of all the bodies that are producing that awarepath.

Once a set of different potential awarepaths is defined then they can be organized into a continuum structure based on one or more variable concepts that the awarepath share in common. Each concept can be represented as or on a dimension so an awarepath can be represented as a n-dimensional snake like figure.

The continuum argument

The potential physipaths forms a continuum. The potential awarepaths forms a continuum as well. Does the physipaths that can be produced in this universe produce a uniform awarecontinuum? This means can we produce every possible conceivable awarepath and is there no awarepath existing between these two awarepath on the continuum of physipath produced in this universe.

To make the statement this is either you or not you is not correct because it might be a lot like you. The ixperiencit also will form a continuum as ixperiencitpaths. The ixperiencit in a different awarepath can be a lot like the ixperiencit in

The assumption is always either or -- it is either you or it is not you. This is bad or this is good, they are bad, or they are good. In reality this is not the case. A person is not all bad or not all good. The enemy is not all bad or all good. You may not be you some times. This is possible in the physical sense.

The continuum argument is that because of the awarecontinuum and physicontinuum it is not always easy to say that this is you and this is not you or that you experience this awarepath or you do not experience that awarepath. Why is this concept important?

The real future you argument

We really do not know who the real you (which physipath and awarepath) will be created in the future because there are so many possible divergent physipaths that can start at this present moment, so we can say they are all potentially versions of you, because we can not say, with any certainty, which one will be produced ahead of time. Since the physipath can diverge into any other physipath, over time, with the correct externapath (there are many different externapaths that will converge one particular physipath into another specific physipath) your body could produce in the future almost any possible one. The only certain point in the future physapath is the present physamoment. So the only certain point in the awarepath is the present awaremoment.

This argument counters the concept that there is only one you (physipath or awarepath). We can not know which one is you ahead of time because we can not predict the future that well. This applies to the physipath as well as awarepaths. There is no guarantee which physipath the body will follow. This is because there is no guarantee of a specific future enviropath, sensepath, momentumpath or qmpath that will effect or direct it.

The only counter to this argument is that you are not you. You become someone else if you do not diverge or converge into the correct person (physipath). But if this is true that you can diverge into someone else, if there is the correct change to the physipath, then it should also apply to the reverse that someone else's physipath can diverge into yours as well. If they do then this is a form of survival of death for others.

This proof does at least two things there are many physipaths that correspond to you or that other physipaths can converge into your physipath thus producing your awarepath and you.

This proof is support for the concept of multiple versions of you. The powerful part is that of the undetermined nature of the physipath that is going to be created. We can only in hind sight know what potential physapath will be actualized. However, we can in theory determine the awarepath and physapath that will occur when the right conditions occur.

Free will argument

The free will argument is a two way sword if there actually is free will then we can never predict what physipath will be produced under certain circumstances because there will be free will that could change the outcome. Being able to predict the outcome of what awarepath is produced with what physipath is one of the advantages of the identireplica theory. There are actually two parts of this; the ability to predict what physipath that will be produced given the physical conditions and the ability to predict the awarepath given the physipath. If there is free will the awarepath can effect the physapath over and beyond the enviropath, momentumpath, and qm path. We can sum up these three concept as how the local environment effects the functioning of the system-- physipath, how the physical system wants to function given no external modification, and how the long distance effect-- seamless universe effects if from afar. With free will, the consciousness effects the way the physapath functions thus effecting how the awarepath functions. But consciousness is the functioning of the system and functioning of the system does effect the system. You can be aware of the functioning effecting the functioning of the physipath so it seems that consciousness is effecting the functioning.

There are two major aspects of free will to consider. The first is that if the physical conditions are identical or closely identical then the behaviorpath produced by the body should be the same. Second, the brain does process information that influences the behaviorpath. The ability of conscious beings to make decisions based on the information available to them, gives them an increased chance to survive and reproduce by modifying their behavior in order to make better choices. The same physapath will produce the same behaviorpath. There is no free will in this. But sometimes very small changes in the sensepath and, or enviropath can make a big change in the behaviorpath. One uttered word by another person could change the behaviorpath in an entirely unforeseen and drastically different way. Small change in the sensepath can produce very large changes in behavior.

Divergence arguments for the identireplicas

Convergence arguments for the identireplicas

Divergence or convergence arguments for the identireplica would be that physipath can diverge and so can awarepaths as well as converge by the reverse argument. They can converge and diverge and still be a version of you.

We can set up an experiment where we take a group of people of any size but larger the better so if we choose we can take for instance all the people in the world presently, all the people that have ever lived or even all the people that will ever live. Each will have a corresponding physipath for his and her life. We can organize them on a n-dimensional continuum of structure and functioning. We could even arrange them on a one dimensional continuum where their functioning and structure is averaged over all the variables. Since the structure and functioning of each individual changes from one moment to the next the relative placement will change over time as well. Now we can ask questions about these continuums. Do the individuals that have a structure and functioning closer to each other have a consciousnesses that is closer to each other? Or conversely as you become structurally and functionally more different is the consciousness increasing different? Each person will have a awarepath even if it is the null awarepath, which means having no consciousness. Are all null awarepaths equal so that all awarepaths that have a null awarepath converge to and from this null awarepath? A null awarepath can still exist where a non null mentapath exists.

The current belief by many is that each physipath even if identical will produce a unique individual awarepath. Either we will see the convergence of structure and functioning with convergence of consciousness or not. If we do it supplies evidence for the identireplica theory of consciousness. If it does not we have a very strange situation. Some may say that consciousness becomes more alike as functioning and structure become more alike but the ixperiencitness of the different persons do not become more alike. But since the ixperiencitness is part of consciousness it will either converge or diverge as well. In fact, we can use the ixperiencit concept to lay out the conscious continuum in the first place, with people that have an ixperiencitness that are closer to each other, being closer on the continuum. We can then look at the structure and functioning of this awarepath continuum (awarecontinuum) and map it. Will we find that the closer the ixperiencitnesses are to each other, the closer the structure and functioning is? Of course one might say that we in fact cannot map the ixperiencitness because there is not any objective way of doing it. There may be no objective way unless we assume what we are trying to prove. But if there is something like consciousness and ixperiencitness and it does change over time we have personal proof of this. It is true that some changes that occur will not make two physipaths or two awarepaths more or less alike. But there will be many different structures and functionings of matter that will make the two closer. Such as size or complexity of the brain, number of neurons, number of connections, or synapses etc.

One of the problems is that we do not think that the change in functioning and structure is enough to produce the change in peoples consciousnesses over time. We really do not see this change in the structure and functioning of the nervous system.

The concept of the awarepath physipath continuum mapping is one of the proofs of the identireplica theory. We can look at what happens if this is not the case. We make a physicontinuum of what ever dimensional size that is necessary. Laying out all possible physipaths. There will be an line in n-dimensional space that corresponds to every persons physipath. There will be all sorts of physipaths that pass through this line making their own physipaths this is from the process of convergence and divergence of physipaths. No the questions will be what is the awarecontinuum that maps to the physicontinuum . We might say that there is only the null awarepath that maps to all the physipaths but since there is something that I personally experience that I call my awarepath it has to map to my physipath. I think that others have awarepaths but it is always possible that I live is a totally singular universe where I am the only consciousness person. But then all the sensation that I experience may be just an experience produced in an experience machine. But his does not mean that there does not exist reality out side of it .

The continuum proof for the identireplica theory of consciousness goes as follows there is a continuum of potential physipaths What is the proof that there is a continuum of actual or potential physipaths? What is the proof that we can organize it in many different ways? The first set of ways is by number of dimensions to represent change in different aspects of the variables. If the variability is small there the extent of the dimension can be small as well.

There is a continuum of awarepaths. What is the proof that there can exist awarecontinuums?

There are different forms of existence what doe we mean we can have awareness of different awarepaths these awarepaths can be grouped into a continuum where the one that are more s like are closer together and the ones that are more different are farther away.

Mental construct proof

Once we establish the existence of awarecontinuums and physicontinuums there is the need to connect the two which awarepath go with which physipaths. Since there is the original assumption of each physipath produces or is an awarepath even if it is some times is the null or nonconscious awarepath. The simplest situation and the most technological (ability to use) will If we have the situation where each individual has his own awarepaths that can not diverge and converge

What is the proof that the physicontinuum can be represented in the form of knowledge. And to be able to use that knowledge. To represent it as knowledge we first need a way of representing the data then we need a way or retrieving it then a way to convert or use it.

We can also construct a physipath continuums and relate it to a mentapath continuums it can be connected to isophysipaths and fitophysipaths we can make the universal continuum that connects all the functioning and structure of matter physipaths from all areas like fitophysipath isophysipaths awarepaducers with all produced or potential consciousness that correspond to them.

We can imagine the awarecontinuum physicontinuum connection but then map that to the mentacontinuum. The mentacontinuum might have undercurrents of complexity

Prediction of complex situation depends on approximation. If some thing is closely like something else it will have smaller differences than if it is greatly different. If we add two chemicals they will have a certain effect and or change. A different situation will have the effect or change, if the conditions are identical the. placement only matter if there are different factors involved influencing the event of course at a different place the same change can produce a different effect.

Approximation argument

The approximation argument things that are approximate in structure and functioning will produce similar results one can say that a simple wire being disconnected will make the computer work differently or not at all so a small change in a system can make a large change in what it does This is true a small change in structure can make a large change in functioning but there is this large difference in functioning so their is a large change after all. Systems can be built to be redundant this means large changes in structure will not make large change in functioning . There is evidence that this is the case with the human brain it is redundant enough that when there is infection injury etc. The brain can adapt to some degree and still produce behavior that is human.

False memory argument

The false memory argument is the argument that an cidentireplica even though he may have the same consciousness will have not experienced what the original did so is not the same person.

There are several counter examples

1. Take the original give him an experience that produce memories then gradually take out a very small amount of matter until all the matter is removed and gradually replaced in such a way that the original does no know what happened but if hie does it does not matter hold that matter for a period of time then reassemble it into an exact identireplica of the original. The matter that experienced the event in the original is not the matter that is now in the original. The matter that experienced the event is now in the cidentireplica. The original will still have the same memory and so will the cidentireplica but if false memory is true the original will have the false memory and the identireplica will have the real memory.

2. The original can have his memories changed by changing the structure or functioning of the brain enough. Memories that do not exist in reality he can have memories of. Memories of event that he has experienced but forgot never to remember again. Memories that have either happened to another person the original can have they will not be original either.

A memory (experience) can be generated simply by manipulating the brain with out being stimulated by reality

Artificially produced sensepaths can make experience that seem real thus memories that are as real as naturally produced memories

Originalness of a memory is not necessary Originalness of a memory is not necessary argument

3. What if the original is not the first person to have this memory so does that make the original equal because neither one has had the experience both have had false memories.

What if when we take out the original’s material and replace it with the replacement matter so the original is undisturbed so he had the original memories but he has not experienced them and now we take the bits of matter and create a different memory that has never happened before.

What happens when half of the matter is replace by matter in the cidentireplica which has the real memory we could have more than one cidentireplica where the original splits matter up with them. Ever example would be a different person or would there be an original remember we are trying to know what the original person is for survival of death purposes. If there is no clear continuation does this mean the original died what happened to the cidentireplicas do they die also with this splitting of matter or memories and experiences

what happens when

this is to show that it does not matter about the matter because there has to be something that sorts this mess out which there I s not.

Limited options argument

List of limitations assuming materialism

This is a list of problems with the concept of immortality assuming the body produces consciousness.

When we limit our options we limit what we can do. For instance when we limit consciousness to specific structures and forms there will be much less consciousnesses that can exist. But what are the real limitations of what will and will not produce consciousnesses?

Explanation of each limitation

1. Exact matter limitation

The replica in order to be the original person and consciousness needs to be made of the exact matter and energy.

2. Exact placement /arrangement limitation

The atoms and energy arrangement of the original needs to be in the exactly the same in the replica.

3. Exact structure and functioning limitation

To recreate a persons consciousness you have to recreate the exact structure and functioning and this is impossible to create anything exactly.

4. Exact sensepath limitation

A specific consciousness can not be recreated with out the same environmental conditions that the original went through.

5. Exact quantum path limitation

There is no way to produce the exact same structure and functioning because of the uncertainty principle in quantum mechanics.

6. Exact time limitation

The replica has to exist in a limited time.

7. Exact place limitation

For a replica to exist of an original and produce its consciousness it has to be in the exact place. This place can be any where in the universe where life can not exist like in outer space.

8. To complex limitation

The production of an replica of an individual is to complex so it can never happen

9. Not enough knowledge limitation

There is not enough knowledge for use to produce one individual alone all dead people. There is no template to create a replica for long dead or rotted individuals

10. Limited resources limitation

There can be more people that the earth can handle so most people can not exist in the future.

11. The replica will still die limitation (no normal extensions)

The replica will be at the point in life identically to that of the original so he will eventually die of old age. If the original is already old the replica will still be old

12. No other natural awarepaducers limitation

There does not exist any other type of awarepaducer than the human body to produce a human consciousness.

No artificially produced sensepaths

13. No isoawarepaducers limitation

A person’s consciousness can not be duplicated on a computer etc.

14. No fidentireplicas limitation

Fidentireplicas do not produce the consciousness of the original

15. No superpath extensions limitation

If you modify the replica or original in any way you do not have the same consciousness.

16. No physipath continuums limitation

17. No awarepath continuums limitation

18. No ixperiencit concept limitation have to have the exact memories

If there is no ixperiencit concept there is no way of telling if a consciousness is connected to another consciousness in any meaningful way

Actually it is the ability to produce a memory or personality given a certain sensepath or enviropath. You do not remember everything at any particular moment the environment created the right conditions for the brain to function in the correct way to produce the correct memories behavior etc.

If an argument limits the replica to having exactly the same matter he has created a major limitation. If the limitation is exact structure and functioning of matter there is a second limitation. There is the limitation of space and time -- a replica has to be created within a certain period of time in a certain place like earth with the limited resources. There are also the limitations of not allowing awarepaducers of any sort like artificially produced sensepaths. Then there is the limitation of knowledge how do you know what to create. Complexity limitation to complex to create.

Standard view proof

The standard view is that we see ourselves as individuals against others. We see that we have bodies. We see that other people get sick, old, or injured and die. We are told that this has happened as long as any one has a record of it. We see all the animals and plants eventual die. If we do not see them die we can certainly kill them, if we wish. We do not see them coming back to life. We do not see them having a soul that comes out of them or astral bodies or ghosts. We have no scientific evidence that these things exist only wishful thinking on some peoples part. We also see our consciousness change over time In fact we know what it is like not to be conscious because we are this way for part of the time when we sleep.

The standard view leads to the scientific view that there is a brain, and that brain through it functioning and structure produces consciousness. We think that we have direct knowledge of our own consciousness but we do not experience others. That others are not ours or we would experience it so the consequence is that when we die our consciousness is gone as well. The standard view is based on rational thinking and empirical evidence.

The question is how did your consciousness come to exist in the first place and why are these conditions not ever available again? Scientifically the conditions that make a person is the natural way of a fertilized egg with specific set of DNA, birth, development, interaction with the world and experiences through life. What then is unique for this person. Dna is replaceable, matter, space, and time, are interchangeable. Experiences are supposed to be unique to a person. But experience could be generated again in the correct sequence. However,It does not appear that a person has to have a specific set of experiences to be that person. Or, at every point in your life where you can do some thing different than you did you would be a different person. If a person is a different person from one time to the next where did this new person come from? He certainly did not come the normal way like you did. If this new person can come in and out of existence so easily maybe you come into and out of someone else's live or body as well. We have no scientific evidence of this. It appears that there are many different ways a person can experience things and still be what we call the same person. This supposed new person still thinks that he is the old person he does not see a switich at all he think that he is the old person.

The experiences leaves it’s imprint on the brain by changing the structure and functioning of the brain. There is no other aspect of a person that we have not covered that science actually sees. Thus every thing that is duplicatable when it come to consciousness and a person. There appears that there is no laws that say thou can not duplicate all the aspects of a person that created that person and all the aspects of a person that creates version of that person. Thus a person is technically reproducible after death if enough knowledge is know, But of course nature may create another version of you naturally.

Where as you have to postulate extra things for souls, ghosts, astral bodies, etc, to exist, you do not have to postulate any extra factors for the standard view to be true or exist but you do have to add extra factors for it to be false the identireplica is just the natural continuation of the standard view. Just because a continuation is possible of a person does not means that this person will be continued. but as long as there is a universe there will be the possibility that there will be a versions of a person produced. An the intervening time in between there is no awareness of because there is no consciousness or awareness of time passing because there is no person to experience this time passing.

File name -- toward a good proof File created date --10:51 am Monday, June 30 2003

proof

Memory in matter energy space or time argument

Some specific quality in the original that is not in the cidentireplica and visa versa that is created by space, time, matter, or energy but not produced by the structure and functioning through space and time of the brain.

If it is not the structure or functioning of matter and energy that produces consciousness it has to be another property of matter, energy, space or time. It is possible that space in different places effects matter and energy differently. But in this case the structure and functioning could be different thus explaining the difference in consciousness.

The argument goes that when we make a identical replica it is only a replica even if the consciousness produced is identical it is not your own particular consciousness. Thus there has to be some physical property that produces this difference or differences. Small differences in consciousness still make it the original or version there of.

Ways of dying with out ever surviving or being conscious again:

1. Interruption of consciousness for a long enough period of time

A. Using the same matter in the exact arrangement

B. Using the same matter in a different arrangement

C. Using some new matter with the old the old matter in the same arrangement

2. Large enough replacement of matter at one time

3. Teleportation with new matter creating the replica where the

There is some aspect of matter that is not maintained when there is an interruption in the consciousness even though the new structure is functioning identically.

In the first case we pull apart all the matter in such a way that there is not consciousness produced for any period of time desired then we put the matter together again in exactly the same way it was before it was separated. We will have identical behavior and identical consciousness but it will not be your consciousness according to the corporal- physical theory. Imagine this to happens over and over again each time a new person is created never the old original or any of the new yet previous consciousness. The corporalists say that there will never be a repeat. For this to happen materialisticly there has to be some aspect of the matter that is different from one to the next but if there is a difference it has to be material. What is this difference this memory of all the old consciousness that this mater has produced in the past. We know that old matter can produce many different people because people recycle mater in their diets all the time, the matter in one person can go to produce the consciousness of another person. It has to have a memory that it can produce a new consciousness that it has never produce before but it can never produce the same consciousness again. But the same matter can be recycled within the same person over and over again. For example you eat matter it goes into your system into to the cells of the brain used for a period of time then recycled into urea and used to fertilize the plants that you eat later in you life. Yet this matter is supposed to know if this new body is the same consciousness as before or not.

There is supposed to be a form of assimilation of the matter as each group of matter that is in the body teaches the new matter which specific consciousness it is producing and that it can never produce it again. If there is this strange teaching of the new incoming matter then this is a physical process that should be visible in a physical sense not some ghost or soul in the atoms that is a none physical process.

We are asking the matter to be assimilated through out the body in this complex way it can produce this consciousness and not this other one because this other one has already been produced

We are supposed to believe that there is this unique characteristic of matter that is permanently gone when a person dies. It reminds me of a concept of a soul that is remembered not for what it is but for what it can never be again. The matter is saying I can never produce the same consciousness -- ixperiencit again. It can only produce new consciousness Imagine taking the same matter and the same structure and functioning and over and over again kill the original and create the identireplica of the originals that came before. The corporalist will say that each if properly killed each new replica will be a different consciousness of a different person even theory the consciousness will be identical.If it can never duplicate why not ? That matter has to memorize the consciousness that it has produced in the past and not duplicate this consciousness again. What about the case now that we divide the original body into parts what ever size we want and create a set of originals and then replicas will the memory of the previous any consciousness that has existed before can not exist again

how does a group of matter here and now know that a certain consciousness has been produce before and that it can not create this again. With out this inter universal communication telling the different matter not to produce certain consciousness before we have to have unique aspects of matter. But the

Not only can it not produce the same identical consciousness it can not produce any version of the original consciousness. So a previous structure and functioning of matter from an earlier stage in the life of a person will not be you either

If you are a corporatist you are stuck with some very strange aspects of matter that simply we have not evidence a soul in the matter

the assimilation aspect is a night mare to how does the old matter teach the new matter what consciousness or ixperiencit it is producing. 9 group #seven arguments

Toward a proof

If the cidentireplica does have the consciousness of the original but is not a vehicle for immortality for the original what does this imply? Either consciousness is not the key to immortality or there is a further aspect to a person that has to be achieved for survival of death or immortality to exist. Does the cidentireplica have this aspect or not or does he have a different aspect or property? but it is different from the original? What is this aspect?

Imagine you are the cidentireplica of the original you will have all the knowledge, abilities, memories, ideas, goals, desires, feelings, emotions, and exact behavior of the original. We will think that you are the original but if the identireplica theory is not correct you will not be the original you will be some one else. You will be a different person with different potential and a different potential for consciousness and sensepath etc.

You are, being a cidentireplica, if the identireplica theory is not correct, a new consciousness that has never existed before. If you have existed before you have proved that two people can exist with the same consciousness, if the original is alive or that you have survived death. If this is the first existence for you it means that a person can come in to existence with a full history of memories and learned behavior like speech language math etc. You will remember certain things that have happened in school as a child but all the time you will not be the original you will be some one different but how? There must be a different that make sense it is do you experience it

Verbal test argument

You can test about knowledge of the original and cidentireplica, you can ask about feelings, goals, emotions, etc. All their inner aspects of a person. The cidentireplica cold be lying but since we can carry out all sorts of different experiments on the original and cidentireplicas videntireplicas since you can do experiments on an unlimited amount of cidentireplicas there is a great deal of knowledge that we can gather about the cidentireplica . Since there is less information about the original but there are a very large number of originals that experiments could be carried out on you can always have a divergence at any point of the cidentireplica so that we can ask questions about feelings emotions ideas dreams etc. Remember a cidentireplica is also an original also so we can try to see what a cidentireplica of a cidentireplica feels thinks etc’ we already know that all the information is going to be the same For there to be a difference in consciousness there has to be some difference somewhere, where we can see it but there will be none

Superpath proof

File name -- superpath proof File created date --11:56 am Wednesday, July 9 2003

A proof that superpaths can have the same ixperiencit as an original.

There are aspects of a person that can be expanded with out changing the basic perspective of the individual. If there are differences between the ixperiencit then changes Abilities can be expanded with out changing the basic nature of the person or personality Some of these abilities are skills, knowledge, speed of knowledge or skills, power to do physical things increase in senses,

If any aspect of a person can be increased they can also be decreased as well.

The buddhist view is that since you are always changing you are never the same person so there really is not a “you”.

If we expand the different aspects of a person and end up with another person where does this other person come from and where does the original go? If we talk about a continuum there is no problem, the original did not disappear and the new person did not appear there is change until there is this new person and all the change in between. We can modify others so they are the same as this superawarepath

Fazpath inclusion principle

The total part of a fazpath can be part of a superfazpath.

The total part of a neuropath can be part of a superneuropath.

The total part of a physipath can be part of a superphysipath.

The total part of a physapath can be part of a superphysapath.

The total part of a awarepath can be part of a superawarepath.

The total part of a mentapath can be part of a supermentapath.

The total part of a ixpepath can be part of a superixpepath.

The total part of a epipath can be part of a superepipath.

Fazpath inclusion argument

If a superpath is advanced enough it can totally contain the awarepath of the original. What is the proof of this we can imagine a original that is connected to a superphysipath that monitors the original in one or more of many different ways.

We can imagine a brain that’s sensepath is created by a super computer device that is controlled in one of many different ways by a superphysipath producing a superawarepath

We can also imagine an integrates awarepath where the consciousness produced by the original but is view in one or more ways through the superawarepath

We can also see the world through the sensepath of the original. The superpath only sensepath is that of the original He feels, see, tastes, smells, and hears only what the original does.

We can also imagine this sensepath plus other one that are compared or integrated into one awarepath.

Incorrect metaphysical beliefs about persons from book on consciousness physical aspect the mental aspect

the identireplica theory says that it can seem to be the case that this is true but in fact it is not. What this means it that there are many different consciousness that can be created some will seem or create the consciousness that this is correct. When in fact it is not.

1. A subject or person is absolute

2. A subject or person is separate

3. A subject or person is indivisible

1. Experience is absolute all or none

2. Experience is private

3. Experience is indivisible

1. A subject is absolute, not divisible not part of a continuum, not a matter of degree,

2. A subject is completely separate, distinct indivisible from all other subjects,

3. singular, personal, private,,

Argument against corporalism

Continuous physical changes can produce a different ixperiencit so the corporalism (continuous physical body) is no guarantee of the same person either because one continuous person can become a different person with the right physical sequence of changes. What if they say same person different consciousness. This means any consciousness can be the same person if the continuous physical functioning is maintained. They also call for core psychology being the same. Is this the same as the ixperiencit? I core psychology has to be the same then physical continuity is not enough to guarantee the same person. Because core psychology can change with physical continuity. So there are factors beyond physical continuity that matter for the corporalist.

Superpath argument

We can make improvements to the structure and functioning of a person making a superphysipath this if correctly done will produce a superawarepath either a physical or consciousness approach allows for this. We have a version of a person that is superior to the original would have been. It would still be considered the original as would a lesser path. Is there a limit to the additions to the functioning and structure that gradually occurs or a speed limit to how fast

Infinite continuation argument

With enough science we can keep a person alive indefinitely he will produce a physipath and an awarepath that could be infinitely long either the consciousness will repeat or always be new. With a slow change that person can have the functioning and structure of any one else or any sensepath can be applied to him. From any structure and functioning.

How does nature know how long a person will live for to preestablish a physipath for him that has an awarepath for him? Nature does not know how long a physipath will last for There has to be something that can not be duplicated after a person dies

What happens to that awarepath with you in it. It was potential until you died what happened to that potential awarepath?

Videntireplica argument

Making a bunch of cidentireplicas of an original and letting then diverge while getting information about their past. There are no constraints about making them continue to function in the same way. There are a number of ways to find out information from about the videntireplica about what they think. One way is to ask question and see what answers you get another is to study the brain when to

Still other ways are seeing the actual reactions to external events.

All this information is information about the consciousness of the original as it is modified with the videntireplicas differing externapath.

If the original is scared of spiders the videntireplica will show signs of being scared also. The videntireplica will remember events that have happened in the life of the original as well and maybe better than the original.

Researcher could know all the events in the life of the original so when they ask question about the previous life of the original they can answer them.

The difference between the original and the cidentireplica is their ability to be in different places, times, made of different matter, and diverge or converge to the same consciousness. Possibly to have different structures and functionings also

You know the general results of experiments with videntireplicas ahead of time. The videntireplica will show that he remembers many things that have happened to the original. He will have many of the traits of the original. He will diverge or converge from the originals awarepath and physipath over time.

The question is can we find a differences in the original and the cidentireplica that can not be explained with physical differences. Is there really a difference is an aspect that matters to the individual when considering his survival. Is the existence of a cidentireplica as good as not dying in the first place. Is the existence of videntireplica of the original as good as not dying in the first place. Can the existence of videntireplicas after the original death be even better than the existence of the original. For instance where the original is in terrible pain and the videntireplica is not

We can also imagine the case where a number of videntireplicas are created and then observed to see what they remember, think, feel, If you could do the experiment enough times we can see if they are actually feeling thinking acting the same or just lying about their inner consciousness. People can describe their inner feelings, thoughts, ideas, sensations, etc.

You can even make videntireplicas of yourself and then study their behavior and see if they are really like you and even if they have the same consciousness. They super path of you could have all sorts of abilities to see into the mind of the original and other super videntireplicas.

Points of this argument

We can get a great deal of information from studying videntireplica

We can guess at the behavior of videntireplicas with out creating them because Some will be almost exactly like the behavior of the original.

We can logically deduce consciousness of the videntireplica.

With the potential of doing experiments it is scientific

It shows that videntireplicas actually create versions of your consciousness personality, behavior,and you actually experience them.

Zxw argument

-- ===Anti predictive argument===

Structure and functioning gives us a tangible process to connect the production of consciousness to. The physicalists theory does not. In fact it is the antithesis of a predictive theory. Because it will state that two identical functioning brain will not produce the same consciousness with the same ixperiencit. It then has to explain why two identical functioning brains will and it simply does not have a way to explain why through physical processes that are predictive as to what consciousness will be produced. Physical continuity and psychological continuity if needed for the production of a particular consciousness destroys our ability to predict what consciousness will be produced

If we take all consciousness away from my body but left in it the same behavior

What is there is the physicalists view that produces the difference in consciousness if not the functioning and structure? You do not need the same matter nor be in the same place or time. This is clear so what is left that is unique to a person they say physical connectedness but what specific process is there in being gradually integrated into the new grouping. How is it happening? What is the physical process? They are miss led in the sense that their

Physical continuity argument

Physical continuity has been used to define personel identity by many thinkers, Then the resulting concept of personel identity is used to determine personel survival, life after death and immortality. Physical continuity has many possible definitions. For instance, what makes one physical state continuous with another? At any point along the physipath any number of different things can occur to change the next physical state. So rapid divergence can occur very quickly. How rapidly can physical divergence occur before there is no physical continuity? Is there a continuum of possibilities or a clear cut point when change is so rapid that there is no longer one person and a beginning of another? Why should rapid physical divergence produce a different person when the original is not determined before hand. It can be another person in terms of what is determined to be the original before hand but if there is no determination of the original before hand then the resultant divergent person is by definition the original person

If there is no

Psychological continuity argument

Psychological continuity has been used to define personal identity by many thinkers. Then the resulting concept of personal identity is used to determine personal survival, life after death and immortality. Psychological continuity has many possible definitions. For instance, what makes one psychological state continuous with another? At any point along the awarepath any number of different things can occur to change the next psychological state. So rapid divergence can occur very quickly. How rapidly can psychological divergence occur before there is no psychological continuity? Is there a continuum of possibilities or a clear cut off points when change is so rapid that there is no longer one person and a beginning of another? Why should rapid psychological divergence produce a different person when the original is not determined before hand. It can be another person in terms of what is determined to be the original before hand but if there is no determination of the original before hand then the resultant divergent person is by definition the original person